Potential Item Tweaks

The Necromancer Abyss Sphere

In general, remove and replace one of the modifiers (i.e. piercing attack or shooting additional bone spears) which helps a bone Necromancer which I never see nowadays or much of back then.

Possible replacements could be
1) An additional golem and revive (Note: I wouldn't mind if Death's Fervor was nerfed to have 1 less golem and revive if the Necromancer's Abyss sphere has such)

2) Have some kind of modifier that will boost summons in some manner, be it
A) an extra (5%?) chance to evade an attack or spell,
B) more skeleton power (with other items being nerfed if you think this along with the other modifiers on other items is too much)
C) Skeletons and golems have more damage reduction or crushing blow, etc.

3) Increase magic skill damage or enemy magic resistance if you'd like to make the Bone Necromancer still viable.

Alternatively, you could just tweak Death's Web (if I'm not mistaken) and make it the go to wand for bone necromancers by having piercing attack and shooting additional spheres. As a general rule, I prefer to see all abyss spheres homogenized to an extent where almost all the modifiers on it can help each build though I know that isn't always possible nor does it bother me that much if not all are that helpful (as long as 3 out of 4 of the modifiers are helpful to each build for each character, then that's good enough).

The Amazon Abyss Sphere

Personally, I think it would benefit the Amazon a whole lot more if flurry was replaced with 1 additional Valkyrie, or perhaps alternatively if it is possible (I don't see how or why that wouldn't be the case if it can be done with the Necromancer's summons) you can manage to make Valkyrie more powerful in terms of survivability such as dodging an enemy attack or spell.

Everything else is good.

The Assassin Abyss Sphere

As noted already, I still think the number of shadows this permits should be lowered by 1 and that abyss blink should be removed and replaced. The question though I ask myself is what to replace the latter with that won't be too op and yet useful (and hopefully unique to the Assassin). So I'll throw out the following choices. As per usual, you're all welcome to throw in your own choices.

1) As mentioned above with possibly making the Valkyrie more survivable, consider doing the same for the Assassin's shadows instead of increasing their numbers.

2) Increase damage reduction (perhaps only by 5%) for the character. I'm sure this will be wanted for most Assassins who want to dual wield.

3) Have some kind of modifier that will help the Martial Arts build (kick damage perhaps) assuming no other items or skills will be modded to help that build in the next ladder.

Mark of the Dragon Slayer Jewel

This will be a fairly long one so hold on to your butts.


First, let’s consider who wants this jewel. For us older players (as things stand now), the answer is obvious: physical builds.

Second, let’s consider the modifiers in general with regards to the short and long term benefits, that is, compared to equipment the player is likely to find and use. I would also note that in my opinion, I think this jewel ought to offer at least 2 to 3 short term benefits and perhaps 1 to 2 long term benefits so as to give players some versatility.

1) The Bonus AR modifier is certainly good in the short term i.e. before getting say Titan’s Grip, the Crown of the Skeleton King, Fullmoon, or certain weapons with a lot of AR bonuses or using any 10% bonus to AR scrolls or Gul Runes, so this modifier should certainly stay at least because of the short term bonuses.

2) The damage resistance modifier by itself (emphasis on by itself as opposed to looking at it with all the other bonuses the jewel comes with) in the long term won’t be useful considering the fact that most physical builds (excluding all dual wielding or double handed physical builds) will probably use some of the following gear (either early on or in the long run)

a) Some kind of shield which alone will probably provide somewhere between 25% to 50% damage reduction,
b) Death’s Advance or Meshif’s Traveler (very likely the former in general),
c) Alkor’s charm and the new Annihilus Charm,
d) The Corrupted Shako or the Skull of the Unclean (in the long term)
e) The Scourgelord’s Belt (around the short and mid-term but also in the long term for players that haven’t found the Relic of the Ancients),
f) The Band of Sin Ring (long term though)
g) And of course Ber runes if needed

Put simply, there are plenty of sources for damage reduction in the long term and a couple in the short term, but I think in general the modifier given everything else is ok but only in the short term.

3) The magic resist modifier in my opinion doesn’t seem particularly useful in either the short or long term since there aren’t that many hard enemies that use magic damage skills except of course the monsters in the Icy Cellar (which most people avoid anyway with any kind of build), the Sand Dwellers (unless changed) in the Crucible, the Necromancers in the place where you go when you use the Trag Mark (I forgot the name), and the Necromancer boss whose name I can never spell accurately without looking it up who can also be found in the Crucible. In other words, you’re only really going to really want Magic Resist in the Crucible (which will be a long term goal for pretty much all players). You can afford dying anywhere else.

Next we have to consider the fact that there are now a decent amount of items now (unless changed of course) that can provide some assistance in this department such as the new Annihilus charm, Alkor’s charm, and the Scourgelord’s Belt (note, that I didn’t include other items such as the Shrieking Lich, the Devil’s Bargain, Azurewrath, etc. either because those items very likely won’t be used by physical builds such as the Shrieking Lich or simply because people won’t be interested in using those items just for magic resist in the short or long term such as Azurewrath except in the case of the summoning Druid) and in the very long run the Band of Sin Ring.

The verdict? Almost all things considered, I don’t think it’s a worthwhile modifier in general unless buffed slightly given the other items that you can find, where you’ll need magic resist, the small amount of magic resist you get, and finally the fact that in the short term the supply of such jewels will very likely be small since few people will be able to deal with Mappo early on.

4) The enhanced damage modifier (as the percentages is anyway) whether by itself or coupled with all the above modifiers is without a doubt useless in the long run compared to the Horadric Jewels and in my opinion hardly worth it in the short term especially when the player has to consider if they need other stats such as life steal.

5) The Deadly Strike modifier I’m not sure about at least by itself. I think ultimately it would depend on how many of the jewels you use and also if you’re using Tyrael’s Might which will allow you to put massive amounts of points to vitality. I would wager that most physical builds ought to be able to max out Deadly Strike with about 3 of these jewels if they have Tyrael’s Might. On the other hand, if you consider all the other modifiers (well the ones that are actually useful) with this modifier, than it doesn’t seem too bad, so for me the jury is still out on this.


Recommendations

1) As stated above, keep the AR bonus and damage reduction modifier as is (those will be considered the jewels short term benefits). The Deadly Strike modifier can stay as well only because I can't make heads or tails about that.

2) Consider replacing the magic resist and enhanced damage modifiers with one of the following
a. A% (perhaps 3) to life steal
b. B% (no more than 10) increased attack speed
c. C% (perhaps no more than 3) to enemy physical resistance
d. D% (perhaps 5 to 10) slow target

Alternatively, you could consider buffing buff modifiers as well (magic resist perhaps up to 5%).

Treads of Valusia

...where to start with this other than the fact that pretty much no one uses this certainly not in the long term, and I'm willing to bet almost no one used it in the short term. I only recently found 1 player that used this, and I'm pretty sure he was a new player that probably had those boots tossed to him for free.

At any rate, It's hard to say exactly what one could want from these pair of boots other than that they be tweaked in a way where they can be considered 2nd rate compared to either Death's Advance or Meshif's Traveler.

Burst of speed perhaps ought to be kept just so that other physical builds without teleport or who are not Barbarians can move quickly.

The reanimation modifier isn't worthwhile to count on unless the percentage was increased and even then the only way to make the modifier worthwhile is to kill other enemies and hope a Serpent man spawns. Ultimately I think it should be replaced.

Like the Deadly Strike modifier in the Mark of the Dragonslayer, I'm not sure what to make of the same modifier here coupled with the increased in strength modifier, so I'll leave that be.

The lower strength requirement is pretty much useless since most physical builds will need around at least 150 to 190 strength for their armor, shield, and weapon which would still either be somewhat less than or slightly greater than the amount of strength you would need to equip these boots if it didn't have this modifier, or put simply the bonus doesn't help at all.

Possible considerations

1) A% life steal
2) B% slow target
3) C% Increase Attack Speed
4) a plus 1 to all skills
5) Some kind of CTC to cast decreptify, weaken, dim vision, etc.
6) Some kind of paladin aura (maybe thorns or blessed aim?)

The Shrieking Lich Helmet or ???

This is hard to comment on after checking all sorts of combinations with other gear. Certainly I don't have a problem with this helmet in the short term, as a source of magic damage, to summon more golems assuming golemancers will still be in vogue in the upcoming ladder, or being all around useful in terms of elemental skill damage. It's a good helmet all around, but I was wondering if this or more likely some other helmet could be considered to be the fire equivalent of say Griffon's Eye or Nightwing's Veil. That's all I have to say here.

I really like how the dragon jewel is, u know the deadly strike based on vita was nerfed pretty much right? No way u reach max with just 3 jewels ( unless ur playing a 1500 vita barb ). I think the jewel is fine as it is, it offers everything for the long term, including magic resist we really need vs some end-gear bosses/mobs.

Valusia's, ur talking about replacing the serpent, however i think these boots are made for that solid reason, its not like u have to '' hope '' a serpent spawns after u kill something, it deff will spawn! Serpents actually help out alot for tanking mobs aswell. You know a barb for example like to have strength right? Strength = damage! For the kind of boss that drops this, they work great. The burst of speed is amazing if u dont want to ruin ur ( W Switch ) with the burst of speed dagger! ( These boots are easier to find then Meshifs and maybe on par with lichkings boots, finding wise ). So untill u find death advance/meshifs, i think these boots are amazing! I do agree it could have some more stats, i like the idea of the slow% or maybe something else like %attributes.

A fire sorc will most likely use a shrieking helm cus once she has The Heart of Hell, she can summon fire gollems, this helm gives u 2 extra which is a really nice boost, along with the damage, all skills, res u get :)

I can garantee you that bone necromancer with the right gear is not only a good farmer. But fast at cruci as well. Adding more summons to the game really isn't anything new or groundbreaking. At least imo. I'll get back here later.

You wrote a lot so I'll just point out a few things I agree or disagree with you about.

I agree that the Necro Prime's (shooting additional bone spears) rarely gets put to use.
But if it was removed from the Prime I believe it would be smart to add it to a different item.

The Dragonslayer Jewels magic resist modifier may seem a bit useless but not many items add magic resist as it is.
And even with a ton of magic resist, surviving against magic attacks is nearly impossible or at least in my experience.
I'm not sure if more magic resist items should be added or if the enemies with magic attacks should have lowered damage.

Treads of Valusia should definitely gain something to make them more interesting, I agree they aren't used much at all.

All other Items I have no comment on at the moment, I don't play enough of all the characters to know what's what.

Hmm, that's weird. It was nerfed, but I never saw that mentioned in the patch notes. Just checked it. Before it was about every 1% for every 16 vitality. Now it's about 1 for every 32. Sorry about that. Well, that lessens the utility of that jewel. I still think it should be tweaked a little.

Regarding the serpents, I don't get it. If they pretty much always spawn than why is their a percentage for them? If that is the case, fine. Leave that be too.

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Originally Posted by Savior

You wrote a lot so I'll just point out a few things I agree or disagree with you about.

I agree that the Necro Prime's (shooting additional bone spears) rarely gets put to use.
But if it was removed from the Prime I believe it would be smart to add it to a different item.

The Dragonslayer Jewels magic resist modifier may seem a bit useless but not many items add magic resist as it is.
And even with a ton of magic resist, surviving against magic attacks is nearly impossible or at least in my experience.
I'm not sure if more magic resist items should be added or if the enemies with magic attacks should have lowered damage.

Treads of Valusia should definitely gain something to make them more interesting, I agree they aren't used much at all.

All other Items I have no comment on at the moment, I don't play enough of all the characters to know what's what.

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Ah my bad I said spheres not spears. Yeah, I did mean to say in that last paragraph that either or both the piercing attack modifier and/or additional spears should be moved to a different weapon probably Death's Web (not to be confused with Death's Fervor which is the same type of weapon but with different stats and is rarer to find) which isn't mentioned in the wiki.

That's my experience too for the most part regarding magic attacks/resistance. Granted I'm sure the new Band of Sin Ring helps tons if you can get your hand on that of course.

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Originally Posted by rattan

I can garantee you that bone necromancer with the right gear is not only a good farmer. But fast at cruci as well. Adding more summons to the game really isn't anything new or groundbreaking. At least imo. I'll get back here later.

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I'd have to see that to believe it regarding the Bone Necromancer. Is your guy decked out completely or something because I've never heard or seen anyway take that build all the way.

Regarding adding more summons, the intention was more to give a Poison Necromancer in particular another golem in case one of the Fire Golems goes down. Other than that, you're right. It won't make that much of a difference. The skeletons are actually pretty handy at low levels.

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Originally Posted by vaudeville

I'd have to see that to believe it regarding the Bone Necromancer. Is your guy decked out completely or something because I've never heard or seen anyway take that build all the way.

Regarding adding more summons, the intention was more to give a Poison Necromancer in particular another golem in case one of the Fire Golems goes down. Other than that, you're right. It won't make that much of a difference. The skeletons are actually pretty handy at low levels.

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I've told people so many times bone necro is in a good spot, but nobody bothers to try. I'd say the same about fire druids.

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Originally Posted by vaudeville

I'd have to see that to believe it regarding the Bone Necromancer. Is your guy decked out completely or something because I've never heard or seen anyway take that build all the way.

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mr_malice

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Originally Posted by Game

I've told people so many times bone necro is in a good spot, but nobody bothers to try. I'd say the same about fire druids.

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vouch about bone nec, all fine, no need to change prime

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Originally Posted by Lampogriz

vouch about bone nec, all fine, no need to change prime

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Haha I can never tell with you Lampo, are you saying the prime needs to be changed sarcastically? Pierce helps maelstrom as well!

no sarcasm lol, prime is okay srsly

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Originally Posted by Lampogriz

no sarcasm lol, prime is okay srsly

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Oh okay :) I agree!

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Originally Posted by vaudeville

The Assassin Abyss Sphere

As noted already, I still think the number of shadows this permits should be lowered by 1 and that abyss blink should be removed and replaced. The question though I ask myself is what to replace the latter with that won't be too op and yet useful (and hopefully unique to the Assassin). So I'll throw out the following choices. As per usual, you're all welcome to throw in your own choices.

1) As mentioned above with possibly making the Valkyrie more survivable, consider doing the same for the Assassin's shadows instead of increasing their numbers.

2) Increase damage reduction (perhaps only by 5%) for the character. I'm sure this will be wanted for most Assassins who want to dual wield.

3) Have some kind of modifier that will help the Martial Arts build (kick damage perhaps) assuming no other items or skills will be modded to help that build in the next ladder.

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Shadows are pretty squish yeah, as for the DR%.... Fade adds like 46% as it is. With 60%+ clawblock sins are tanky AF

Martial arts has potential, i just dont think any of the attacks are quite fast enough to compare with just putting a chaos claw on and using WW

buff ribcracker or make rare alternate version like tyraels, plsplspls

Abyss blink doesn't really affect many areas that sin are good at so your idea that abyss blink is OP is kinda false.

You don't typically take a sin in for inferno cows which is really the only end game area in which tele can be used. To make sin viable, it is hard to give them MF, which is wanted for inferno cows.

Sins are also only viable if you have all end game gear and enchants while a lot of the other classes are viable with their respective set items or minimal end game gear / enchants.

Yes sins are great when you have all end game gear and max enchants, but so is every other useful build. Shadows are squishy AF. Sin has relatively low life for a class that usually is getting attacked. If you are a pure trapper, compared to other ele builds, it is relatively harder to reach the needed - Res.

Again, sins are great, but you need all the best gear in thE game for them to be viable.

@Ukon

How can most of what you said not apply to almost all elemental builds though or even physical ones?

1) Every build (unless you want to count pounce or leap for the Druid and Barbarian) also suffers from the exact same problem of being unable to teleport unless they have particular armors (or that green staff) so no the idea expressed isn't false. She has an advantage that other elemental builds do not have excluding the Sorceress regardless of whether that advantage is useful in certain areas or not.

2) Most builds (especially early on) aren't viable for magic find in general especially without the Cow Set, so I don't follow your point, never mind, that in my opinion, Inferno cows, isn't exactly the greatest place to farm in general once you've killed the queen and opened the chests. You're better off farming the Plaguelands, pits, the Dreamland, and the Time Rift just in terms of length of time and the potential items you can find.

3) You can say the same thing for almost all builds except summoners although even there you could still say that since those builds will likely not be powerful enough early on to kill off certain enemies without help from another player.

4) Sorceresses and Poison and Magic Necromancers have it worse with regards to life though the latter two have the benefit of summons (excluding a Fire Sorceress with late gear equipment). Valkyries are also weak as well if you go full lightning Javazon and Bowzon, and it's even worse for those two builds because they'll likely end up only having one Valkyrie with them even with end game gear equipment unless you use enchantments. Again, excluding Necromancers and Druids, the Assassin at least has an advantage over other elemental builds in terms of having meat shields. I'd also point out, that I don't have a problem if the Shadows themselves were buffed in terms of survivability. My issue is just their numbers, and the fact that the Assassin has that much help while other builds don't. I'd settle with there being less shadows from the Touch of Death claw as opposed to the Abyss Sphere especially since you'll find the sphere far sooner though I assume that claw will probably be nerfed anyway.

The last thing I'd like to point out, one of which I meant to do elsewhere, is that the Assassin has the advantage of Fade (tip of the hate to the Dr. for reminding me about that) and last but not least Mind Blast. Yes, I know before anyway says it, that the conversion rate for that is annoying. I've seen and experienced that problem enough to understand the annoyance. It wouldn't bother me at all if the rate for that happening was lowered, but whether that happens or not, this is still a clear advantage this build has over other elemental ones.

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Originally Posted by vaudeville

@Ukon

How can most of what you said not apply to almost all elemental builds though or even physical ones?

1) Every build (unless you want to count pounce or leap for the Druid and Barbarian) also suffers from the exact same problem of being unable to teleport unless they have particular armors (or that green staff) so no the idea expressed isn't false. She has an advantage that other elemental builds do not have excluding the Sorceress regardless of whether that advantage is useful in certain areas or not.

2) Most builds (especially early on) aren't viable for magic find in general especially without the Cow Set, so I don't follow your point, never mind, that in my opinion, Inferno cows, isn't exactly the greatest place to farm in general once you've killed the queen and opened the chests. You're better off farming the Plaguelands, pits, the Dreamland, and the Time Rift just in terms of length of time and the potential items you can find.

3) You can say the same thing for almost all builds except summoners although even there you could still say that since those builds will likely not be powerful enough early on to kill off certain enemies without help from another player.

4) Sorceresses and Poison and Magic Necromancers have it worse with regards to life though the latter two have the benefit of summons (excluding a Fire Sorceress with late gear equipment). Valkyries are also weak as well if you go full lightning Javazon and Bowzon, and it's even worse for those two builds because they'll likely end up only having one Valkyrie with them even with end game gear equipment unless you use enchantments. Again, excluding Necromancers and Druids, the Assassin at least has an advantage over other elemental builds in terms of having meat shields. I'd also point out, that I don't have a problem if the Shadows themselves were buffed in terms of survivability. My issue is just their numbers, and the fact that the Assassin has that much help while other builds don't. I'd settle with there being less shadows from the Touch of Death claw as opposed to the Abyss Sphere especially since you'll find the sphere far sooner though I assume that claw will probably be nerfed anyway.

The last thing I'd like to point out, one of which I meant to do elsewhere, is that the Assassin has the advantage of Fade (tip of the hate to the Dr. for reminding me about that) and last but not least Mind Blast. Yes, I know before anyway says it, that the conversion rate for that is annoying. I've seen and experienced that problem enough to understand the annoyance. It wouldn't bother me at all if the rate for that happening was lowered, but whether that happens or not, this is still a clear advantage this build has over other elemental ones.

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Every build has advantages over the other. Barbs have natural higher life and high BO lvl, Druids have cyclone armor, necros have huge amount of summons and curses, etc etc. I don't think having an extra 8 enchant slots is that game breaking.


The point is, the only time Sin is viable is if you have all end game gear and enchants, until then, sin is basically worthless. You won't see really anyone starting ladder as a sin. While sin is one of the top end game characters, it is completely horrid until then. Every class has its give and take. Sins is you have to be rich to make it viable.

Also, touch of death isn't really all that Overpowered. While it does offer a lot of "on screen" damage, the + elemental damage boosted by Jack of trades to actual monsters is very minimal, unless you build around - Res around one of those specific elements (fire is the only one viable to build around only if you have Azmodan Armor due to boosting Holy Fire also). Due to the limited amount of - Res outside of - Poison, the actual damage done to the monsters of the +3000 fire / cold / lightning damage is actually very minimal, especially in cases of End Game bosses that have extreme resistances.


Again, your entire thought process is flawed.

Yes sin is good. No it's not over powered. WW sin, that uses Touch of Death, sucks unless you have all end game gear and enchants. Sin is only good, whether trapper or WW, until you have all end game gear and enchants.

The + ele damage on Touch of Death seems like it adds a lot of damage because it increases on screen damage, but the actual damage dealt is minimal. Only time that it does make a difference, is if you build around fire damage from Azmodan Armor, which is the hardest item to get in the game, outside of possibly that dumb sword that D1 Diablo drops.

You are trying to solve a problem that does not exist.

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Originally Posted by Ukon

Every build has advantages over the other. Barbs have natural higher life and high BO lvl, Druids have cyclone armor, necros have huge amount of summons and curses, etc etc. I don't think having an extra 8 enchant slots is that game breaking.


The point is, the only time Sin is viable is if you have all end game gear and enchants, until then, sin is basically worthless. You won't see really anyone starting ladder as a sin. While sin is one of the top end game characters, it is completely horrid until then. Every class has its give and take. Sins is you have to be rich to make it viable.

Also, touch of death isn't really all that Overpowered. While it does offer a lot of "on screen" damage, the + elemental damage boosted by Jack of trades to actual monsters is very minimal, unless you build around - Res around one of those specific elements (fire is the only one viable to build around only if you have Azmodan Armor due to boosting Holy Fire also). Due to the limited amount of - Res outside of - Poison, the actual damage done to the monsters of the +3000 fire / cold / lightning damage is actually very minimal, especially in cases of End Game bosses that have extreme resistances.


Again, your entire thought process is flawed.

Yes sin is good. No it's not over powered. WW sin, that uses Touch of Death, sucks unless you have all end game gear and enchants. Sin is only good, whether trapper or WW, until you have all end game gear and enchants.

The + ele damage on Touch of Death seems like it adds a lot of damage because it increases on screen damage, but the actual damage dealt is minimal. Only time that it does make a difference, is if you build around fire damage from Azmodan Armor, which is the hardest item to get in the game, outside of possibly that dumb sword that D1 Diablo drops.

You are trying to solve a problem that does not exist.

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Sin is worthless without end-game gear? Oooooook, it has one of the few builds that can solo inferno cows with starter sets, and before end-game gear you can solo crucible.

Regarding item tweaks, I think Frostmourne should be a 2h weapon like it is in WoW, or reduce the skill in Revives to 1. I really don't think the strongest summon of a druid should be a necromancer skill.

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Originally Posted by Addah

Sin is worthless without end-game gear? Oooooook, it has one of the few builds that can solo inferno cows with starter sets, and before end-game gear you can solo crucible.

Regarding item tweaks, I think Frostmourne should be a 2h weapon like it is in WoW, or reduce the skill in Revives to 1. I really don't think the strongest summon of a druid should be a necromancer skill.

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I disagree with Frostmourne being 2h, If there really was a problem with it, I'd say it could be fixed another way.
But I really don't see a problem with it that much, and if It was 2h no one would ever want to use it really I don't think.

On the note about 2handers, i think they need a buff. The only decent damage 2hander is ETH buster, but its crazy hard to find. Phys Set is OK, but not enough damage, and stormspires static does good damage but you then have no defense / block and die easy. Theres not much option and middle ground for 2handers at the moment.

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Originally Posted by pulse37

On the note about 2handers, i think they need a buff. The only decent damage 2hander is ETH buster, but its crazy hard to find. Phys Set is OK, but not enough damage, and stormspires static does good damage but you then have no defense / block and die easy. Theres not much option and middle ground for 2handers at the moment.

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I agree that 2 handed weapons have always been rather unused and I think more should be added or buffed in the future.

I suggest picking up rares/crafting items, they have alot of potential :o

I'm actually kind of curious to know if there was another intended use for the Buster sword besides WW seeing that the sword has CTC spells even though WW can't proc CTC spells.

With the right amount of ias its pretty dope for alot more