Some ideas for 5.0

Amazon:
Summon more Decoys with Valkyrie enchant
Valkyrie is meant to be a tank but currently dies very quickly from most custom content
Strafe should get a boost for early-mid game progression

Note: Decoy dies very quickly, could use health boost to synergy or spawn multiple Decoys. Valkyrie should be around 35-50% the health of a golem even with its dodge/evasion.

Necromancer:
Golems/Revives should walk through skeletons so they can reach a boss.

Note: When a Summoner necro surrounds a boss with an army, maybe 75% of the summons are actually attacking the target because there is no room to get in melee range. Perhaps add 2-4 Archers and remove 2 Skeletons.

Sounds like some decent ideas. :)

game pls add crafted jewls!

I think increasing decoy life is a good idea for sure.

I don't think making golems/revives able to run thru other mobs is possible, but you can try reviving some larger monsters and stacking them with teleport and then tele directly onto the boss. That's usually what I do and it keeps you safe and lets most if not all of your summons attack the boss.

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Originally Posted by acyroma

I think increasing decoy life is a good idea for sure.

I don't think making golems/revives able to run thru other mobs is possible, but you can try reviving some larger monsters and stacking them with teleport and then tele directly onto the boss. That's usually what I do and it keeps you safe and lets most if not all of your summons attack the boss.

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That's often not possible for any boss that moves around after you portal, or in open spaces. Plus in the time it takes to portal a few times and get the position right the boss is regenerating health, also if there are any mobs you can't control your army to focus a boss or remain stacked together, especially without teleport. Also if you corner a boss they can't be surrounded.

I think removing some skeletons and adding more archers would help with this problem. Or perhaps the melee attack range can be increased for golems or skeletons.

when i tried nec , archers seemed to do no dmg compared top skellys

I'm not sure what the attack speed difference is between skeletons and archers, but I know archers have a decent chance to miss with a projectile.

I think all the increased attack speed on skeletons outweighs the crushing blow chance of archers, but I'm not sure.

I'll piggyback one more thing off of this that has bothered me. The prevent monster heal from ravens does not appear to work a large amount of the time. If there is no way to fix that, you could have it apply open wounds instead. Oh and does anybody know if raven applies any other on-hit effects such as melee splash?

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Originally Posted by rrra

I'll piggyback one more thing off of this that has bothered me. The prevent monster heal from ravens does not appear to work a large amount of the time. If there is no way to fix that, you could have it apply open wounds instead. Oh and does anybody know if raven applies any other on-hit effects such as melee splash?

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Ravens do not gain any CTC effects that it's user has. Prevent monster heal in general is buggy, it isn't just the Ravens. Nothing we can do about that unfortunately.

Could you comment on the melee range problem for a necro army, golems not often being able to get to a boss surrounded by skeletons? You could remove 5 skeletons and add 5-8 archers to basically fix the problem.

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Originally Posted by Game

Ravens do not gain any CTC effects that it's user has. Prevent monster heal in general is buggy, it isn't just the Ravens. Nothing we can do about that unfortunately.

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You've used this as a defense for blood golem on necro in the past, but I guess you know it hardly works.

That MAY allow golems to hit the target but it will harm necros as a whole in any other situation. You can always either unsummon a few skeletons or stack all your summons and stomp the boss. Stack, not surround.

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Originally Posted by Addah

Could you comment on the melee range problem for a necro army, golems not often being able to get to a boss surrounded by skeletons? You could remove 5 skeletons and add 5-8 archers to basically fix the problem.




You've used this as a defense for blood golem on necro in the past, but I guess you know it hardly works.

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"Defense" huh? It's not an excuse, its the truth. Even prevent monster heal on the player's gear itself often doesn't work. The mod itself isn't made well. I have no plans to change the Necromancer skeletons as of now. Summon the golem on top of the boss.

Can i suggest some druid buffs?

Fire Claw - The damage is great, however the speed / framerate doesnt do it justice to make a build around it - would be great to have a faster frame attack/ or even like chance to cast fissure or something when using it.

Sages summons- They are great, but die so easily, usually just drift off into the enemy and die in one hit. Also their is very limited gear choice for druid to get the extra +summons - only fullmoon and abyss sphere.

(would also love to see the classic Ribcracker buffed / alternate version :) miss this awesome wep (2 handers in general)

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Originally Posted by pulse37

Can i suggest some druid buffs?

Fire Claw - The damage is great, however the speed / framerate doesnt do it justice to make a build around it - would be great to have a faster frame attack/ or even like chance to cast fissure or something when using it.

Sages summons- They are great, but die so easily, usually just drift off into the enemy and die in one hit. Also their is very limited gear choice for druid to get the extra +summons - only fullmoon and abyss sphere.

(would also love to see the classic Ribcracker buffed / alternate version :) miss this awesome wep (2 handers in general)

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Yeah the changes to bears and wolves a patch or two back destroyed the attack speed potential for fireclaws bears. The attack speed for wolves doesn't seem too bad though although you definitely wont be getting 6+ attacks/second like you used to be able to do with bears. With azurewrath and the unholy might aura, my druid seems to do about 3 or 4 attacks/second.

That being said, I have no clue at all how attack speed works for shifters now except for what Game said awhile back about wolves being faster.

That being said, fireclaws actually looks like a viable build now. If only I had an azmodan armor and flame horizon to test it with. A full build should be able to get at least 20k base + up to another 40 from enchant and fire damage. Getting to -200 fire shouldn't be too hard with 125 base from azmodan armor and flame horizon. So there's 120k damage per hit.

I find that if I use bo on my summons, they dont die very often. Another trick you can do is use something with a salvation aura (azurewrath, seraphs hymn) on you or your merc. That will make your summons gain immunities.

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Originally Posted by acyroma

That MAY allow golems to hit the target but it will harm necros as a whole in any other situation. You can always either unsummon a few skeletons or stack all your summons and stomp the boss. Stack, not surround.

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Yes I suppose that will work, although it could take a few tries to get the tactics right in crucible.

What I wanted is for golems to still be focused by an enemy that's still surrounded by an army, but I realize now that wouldn't work just by having longer attack range of the golems.

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Originally Posted by Game

"Defense" huh? It's not an excuse, its the truth. Even prevent monster heal on the player's gear itself often doesn't work. The mod itself isn't made well. I have no plans to change the Necromancer skeletons as of now. Summon the golem on top of the boss.

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Yes you've said in the past to someone who complained about dealing with boss health regeneration as a necro summoner to use a blood golem, and now you say it's not a real solution.

Have you ever tried the first boss of crucible with a fully geared summoner?

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Originally Posted by Addah

Yes I suppose that will work, although it could take a few tries to get the tactics right in crucible.

What I wanted is for golems to still be focused by an enemy that's still surrounded by an army, but I realize now that wouldn't work just by having longer attack range of the golems.






Yes you've said in the past to someone who complained about dealing with boss health regeneration as a necro summoner to use a blood golem, and now you say it's not a real solution.

Have you ever tried the first boss of crucible with a fully geared summoner?

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I said to use Blood Golem, correct, what else am I supposed to say? Blood Golem works just as good as a Prevent Monster Heal weapon. If the game glitches out for one it's going to glitch out for the other. This isn't something that just affects Necromancers.

all summoner necros need is a "gather minions" skill which is basicly a teleport to your current location for high-end eras without teleportation and a way to not /afk against phys immune mobs

Make a portal next to boss, re-enter, there's ur area summon teleport :) !

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Originally Posted by nedamettin

all summoner necros need is a "gather minions" skill which is basicly a teleport to your current location for high-end eras without teleportation and a way to not /afk against phys immune mobs

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This is not possible, it still will not work on maps that doesn't allow teleport.

ryleh key works, can't you make an item for summoners to use?

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Originally Posted by Mephisto

Make a portal next to boss, re-enter, there's ur area summon teleport :) !

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Mhm. I tend to do that in order to get my revives to keep up with me. It's annoying sure, but it gets the job done.

give skeletons a bigger range simply... ynot?

Add this suggestion. Nerf the Assassin a bit at least which I'm sure you've heard of a lot by now. How? Consider the following:

1) First and foremost reduce the number of extra shadows by 1 for both the Assassin Abyss Sphere and the Touch of Death claws. There's just no justification to me as to why this character can potentially have a comparable amount of shadow masters as a necromancer can have golems (and yes I know the latter can have more of those, revives, and skeletons but the thing is that's the point for type of character).

2) Consider tweaking Jack of all Trades slightly where points on the skill alone in terms of percentage damage to certain elements are reduced slightly while the synergy bonus it gets from martial arts skills may be buffed if needed if you'd like the Martial Arts Assassin to be more viable build. I would note changing this may also call for nerfing the Touch of Death claws as well.

3) Consider removing abyss blink if nothing else. If other classes/builds (excluding the sorceress of course) can't benefit from teleporting due to certain items they will need for their class/build, than neither should the Assassin. She should be in the same boat with other elemental builds in terms of wanting to use the teleportation scroll or not on their armor. The Martial Arts or Whirlwind Assassin, meanwhile, can always try closing the gap against enemies with Ambush just as the Druid can do similarly with Pounce or the Barbarian can do with leap (assuming players don't want to use a teleportation scroll and Tyrael's Might for those builds).

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Originally Posted by vaudeville

Add this suggestion. Nerf the Assassin a bit at least which I'm sure you've heard of a lot by now. How? Consider the following:

1) First and foremost reduce the number of extra shadows by 1 for both the Assassin Abyss Sphere and the Touch of Death claws. There's just no justification to me as to why this character can potentially have a comparable amount of shadow masters as a necromancer can have golems (and yes I know the latter can have more of those, revives, and skeletons but the thing is that's the point for type of character).

2) Consider tweaking Jack of all Trades slightly where points on the skill alone in terms of percentage damage to certain elements are reduced slightly while the synergy bonus it gets from martial arts skills may be buffed if needed if you'd like the Martial Arts Assassin to be more viable build. I would note changing this may also call for nerfing the Touch of Death claws as well.

3) Consider removing abyss blink if nothing else. If other classes/builds (excluding the sorceress of course) can't benefit from teleporting due to certain items they will need for their class/build, than neither should the Assassin. She should be in the same boat with other elemental builds in terms of wanting to use the teleportation scroll or not on their armor. The Martial Arts or Whirlwind Assassin, meanwhile, can always try closing the gap against enemies with Ambush just as the Druid can do similarly with Pounce or the Barbarian can do with leap (assuming players don't want to use a teleportation scroll and Tyrael's Might for those builds).

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I don't play the assassin ever, but vaudeville sounds like he's making a lot of sense. lol
He's a good player so I trust his opinion even if I dont fully understand everything he's saying.

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Originally Posted by norak

give skeletons a bigger range simply... ynot?

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I like the idea of adding more melee skeleton range, but I asked about archer range and it can't be increased.

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Originally Posted by vaudeville

Add this suggestion. Nerf the Assassin a bit at least which I'm sure you've heard of a lot by now. How? Consider the following:

1) First and foremost reduce the number of extra shadows by 1 for both the Assassin Abyss Sphere and the Touch of Death claws. There's just no justification to me as to why this character can potentially have a comparable amount of shadow masters as a necromancer can have golems (and yes I know the latter can have more of those, revives, and skeletons but the thing is that's the point for type of character).

2) Consider tweaking Jack of all Trades slightly where points on the skill alone in terms of percentage damage to certain elements are reduced slightly while the synergy bonus it gets from martial arts skills may be buffed if needed if you'd like the Martial Arts Assassin to be more viable build. I would note changing this may also call for nerfing the Touch of Death claws as well.

3) Consider removing abyss blink if nothing else. If other classes/builds (excluding the sorceress of course) can't benefit from teleporting due to certain items they will need for their class/build, than neither should the Assassin. She should be in the same boat with other elemental builds in terms of wanting to use the teleportation scroll or not on their armor. The Martial Arts or Whirlwind Assassin, meanwhile, can always try closing the gap against enemies with Ambush just as the Druid can do similarly with Pounce or the Barbarian can do with leap (assuming players don't want to use a teleportation scroll and Tyrael's Might for those builds).

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Yes Yes Yes a million times Yes

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Originally Posted by Savior

I don't play the assassin ever, but vaudeville sounds like he's making a lot of sense. lol
He's a good player so I trust his opinion even if I dont fully understand everything he's saying.

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Hmm, then allow me to summarize all that in a simpler way.

1) An assassin shouldn't have a similar advantage as a necromancer can have in terms of the number of shadows she can have (I particularly don't like this because an Amazon can certainly use extra Valkyries, but there's only one item and scrolls where she can do so)

2) Tweak all that stuff so that the trap and whirlwind assassin is a bit weaker (I have to try out the latter a little more) than they are now while boosting up the Martial Arts assassin.

3) The assassin shouldn't haven't the same advantage as a sorceress by teleporting once she gets her Abyss Sphere. In all honesty, I should have put this as the main thing that should be removed for this class. Point 2 isn't as necessary as 3 and 1 except for the whirlwind assassin which I'm sure will be nerfed anyway.

Yeah I really don't think abyss blink is that big of a deal. By the time someone is able to afford a prime charm, they're rich enough to afford an armor with teleport. There are a lot of ways to get teleport on an armor now. So it really isn't an impediment at this point. In fact, I had an armor with teleport on the first day of this past ladder because nobody else in the baal run I was in thought to pick up a white rare armor. So I had a 3 all skill/1 teleport rare armor right at the start. In addition, I'm not sure if you realize that abyss blink was actually nerfed just last patch because we finally realized how crazy good the proc rate was about a week before the patch hit. I still find it hilarious that it took over a year for someone to test out a proc-based weapon with abyss blink and figure out how busted it was. Also, assassins mostly function as a spellcaster class. Without the extra shadows, trappers would have a really hard time vs harder content. They need something that can take damage for them, give them time to set up trap fields, and keep monsters in the trap fields. Shadows allow them to do that. The tradeoff is that they are made of paper. So you will be recasting them constantly. Without them though, trappers are basically unplayable as anyone who has ever watched a poorly geared trapper running for its life in inferno cows knows.

WW sins are strong. But they aren't nearly on the level of nado druids at the beginning of the last ladder. The only real problem I have with them is that right now they are stronger than WW barbs. Since barbs are getting reworked next patch, I think they will at least be comparable.

I think trappers are probably the strongest spec right now at the top end. For whatever reason though, they seem to be overshadowed by other specs and/or people just don't like playing them. I mean we had several solo crucible clears at below 20 minutes fairly early in the ladder and assassins haven't been changed at all since then. Everyone would rather build a druid though for some reason even though trappers have out damaged them for a while now. Fire trappers have the highest damage ceiling of any build. Light trappers do slightly less damage while being tankier because they have access to oak sage. I didn't play either of them very much because they take a long time to gear at the top end and mind blast's (from shadow master) conversion drives me nuts. You realistically need at least 200+ fire/150+ light pierce for them to reach their potential.

To rrra

Regaring Abyss Blink, yeah I heard about the recent change to that. I also find it funny that it took so long to change that. My two problems with this skill is that first, I don't believe the Assassin deserves the advantage of being able to teleport just with that charm and second, that because of this skill, an assassin can afford using other enchantments on their armor to make them more powerful which gives them a huge advantage over other elemental casters (except of course Sorceresses and assuming they don't use other armor with teleport) which I don't find fair at all.

Regarding the WW sin, I'm hoping they get nerfed and that the WW Barb comes back as the rightful king of that skill. It's his skill, not the Assassin's.

Regarding the use of trap assassin as of late, It's hard for me to tell since I've been back for the past 2 weeks, but it does seem that the build got overshadowed a bit even though it hasn't been nerfed at all. I'm just as lost as you are as to why that is.

Regarding the Wind Druid, yes they were obscenely ridiculous in the beginning and now they've been nerfed perhaps a bit too much from I've heard.

Regarding Shadows, yes that is true. They are weak (which is why I hope that they can individually be buffed a bit instead while decreasing their numbers) and they are meant to buy the Assassin time. I get that. I don't have a problem with the Assassin having an extra Shadow from her charm, and another one from her a weapon she can use. My problem with the Assassin in this regard is that other elemental builds either are pretty much in a similar boat (Bowzon who can only get 1 Valkyrie who even when maxed is still pretty weak and the Lighting Javazon who can possibly get 2 who will be even weaker because the player will have put points elsewhere and assuming the player uses the Twin's Anger which they likely won't) or worse (Sorceresses, unless you get the new fire dimensional Shard, and FOH and Searing Light Paladin who have no protection whatsoever), so its not fair to come to the defense of the Trap Assassin and ignore other builds who have it just as bad or worse.

Beyond being able to teleport and get help from one too many summons compared to other elemental builds, I don't have much of a problem with the Assassin right now. They seem more than good enough (especially compared to the previous ladder). I just don't like seeing them have particular advantages other builds should have while we have other builds that don't those advantages and yet badly need them. I highly doubt decreasing the maximum number of shadows the Assassin can get from 5 to 3 and removing Abyss Blink would make her worse than other elemental builds. The suggestion regarding Jack of All Trades I made could be dropped so long as the two changes are made just to see how people react from there. I would also note, elsewhere I've made the proposal of adding damage reduction in place of Abyss Blink should the Assassin need such or some other helpful modifier.

Finally I'm going to have to drop the hammer on you regarding your statement that a poorly geared trapper is basically unplayable against Inferno cows because everyone knows pretty much every poorly geared build except the Necromancer are almost unplayable against Inferno Cows. Yes I've seen my fair share of badly equipped Trap Assassins do no more than tickle Inferno Cows, but I've seen the exact same problem with builds too even when they had their set gear (surely we've all seen Sorceresses get their asses handed to them time and time again with and especially without the Tal Rasha set). I mean, have you ever seen a Paladin with starting gear do well against Inferno Cows? I certainly haven't. I'm sorry, but that just isn't a persuasive argument.

u can pretty much farm anything with a prime and nats as assassin.

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Originally Posted by vaudeville

To rrra
Finally I'm going to have to drop the hammer on you regarding your statement that a poorly geared trapper is basically unplayable against Inferno cows because everyone knows pretty much every poorly geared build except the Necromancer are almost unplayable against Inferno Cows. Yes I've seen my fair share of badly equipped Trap Assassins do no more than tickle Inferno Cows, but I've seen the exact same problem with builds too even when they had their set gear (surely we've all seen Sorceresses get their asses handed to them time and time again with and especially without the Tal Rasha set). I mean, have you ever seen a Paladin with starting gear do well against Inferno Cows? I certainly haven't.

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Lovely argument

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Originally Posted by nedamettin

u can pretty much farm anything with a prime and nats as assassin.

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Trapsin and Barb are the king and queen of the server, I hope 5.0 changes that a bit.

This would be more of a question than a suggestion, but to the powers that be, is there any chance we might see a new unique charm that's meant primarily for physical builds? That was an idea I had considered last ladder but didn't feel like entertaining.

Also while I'm at it, is there any chance the Physical Cthulhu set may be buffed a bit and that meditation on Griswold's is replaced with some other kind of aura (or modifier take your pick) that would be more useful in the next ladder?

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Originally Posted by vaudeville

This would be more of a question than a suggestion, but to the powers that be, is there any chance we might see a new unique charm that's meant primarily for physical builds? That was an idea I had considered last ladder but didn't feel like entertaining.

Also while I'm at it, is there any chance the Physical Cthulhu set may be buffed a bit and that meditation on Griswold's is replaced with some other kind of aura (or modifier take your pick) that would be more useful in the next ladder?

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Cthulhu event (dreamlands in general) is quite different in 5.0. Dreamlands is one of the very late endgame areas now, and the items have been buffed to match. This includes the Cthulhu set. Griswolds set... I may change the aura, not sure yet. It isn't necessarily meant to be late game and the health / mana regen isn't awful.

As for physical builds, physical builds in general have gotten some buffs. The attack rating / damage charms can roll higher now as well. There may be a few other things in store, still doing some testing.

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Originally Posted by Game

Cthulhu event (dreamlands in general) is quite different in 5.0. Dreamlands is one of the very late endgame areas now, and the items have been buffed to match. This includes the Cthulhu set. Griswolds set... I may change the aura, not sure yet. It isn't necessarily meant to be late game and the health / mana regen isn't awful.

As for physical builds, physical builds in general have gotten some buffs. The attack rating / damage charms can roll higher now as well. There may be a few other things in store, still doing some testing.

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All hail Lelouch !

I look like this when you talk about new stuff

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...49971f0a20.gif

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Originally Posted by Mephisto

All hail Lelouch !

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O_O

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Originally Posted by Mephisto

All hail Lelouch !

I look like this when you talk about new stuff

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...49971f0a20.gif

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Roflmfao :o

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Originally Posted by Game

Cthulhu event (dreamlands in general) is quite different in 5.0. Dreamlands is one of the very late endgame areas now, and the items have been buffed to match. This includes the Cthulhu set. Griswolds set... I may change the aura, not sure yet. It isn't necessarily meant to be late game and the health / mana regen isn't awful.

As for physical builds, physical builds in general have gotten some buffs. The attack rating / damage charms can roll higher now as well. There may be a few other things in store, still doing some testing.

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Snoogins!

Hype