View Full Version : The High runes (Hrs) market
Scorchz
10-01-2016, 06:14 PM
First and foremost , this treat isn't about complaining or anything. I am juste a little bit curious and tired of getting refuse in trade when I'm offering a HR bellow BER. Since when an High rune start at ber ? Ever since i played Diablo 2 on battle net , An High rune start At Ohm or Lo , so i'm just curious , why in this server Lo or even Sur isn't an hr ? It cannot be because they are bad into a socket or something , cause no one use them for that purpose anyways , we all put facet or horadrims. Wouldn't be easier to trade as a " new " player with the proper high rune system ? cause right now , When you loot a rune bellow BER , you can literally leave it on the floor lol , cause , who will trade it anyways ? I traded with a guy today , he refuse my Lo+sur for an item , ( witch is a high rune ) saying that he wanted Ber+ , and we end up having this discution that things have to change , cuz it just doesn't make sense that a rune bellow Ber are useless trading tolls. I know my words may not change a single bit the market , and i may offend some people , and getting some dislike comment , but whatever , at least i made the move that maybe some people wanted to do and was afraid of getting rejected by the community.
Addah
10-01-2016, 07:47 PM
I agree the high rune market could be better, and there's many reasons for why players behave this way.
1) Drop rates are "fairly" high, but there's a lot of rich people who log 50 mules to farm, so Computer performance profits farming, and them getting high runes so easily changes the market
2) Most Runeword items are not used because players skip straight to Sets for more bonuses/damage, so there is no system in place to consume "lower" high level runes
3) Pul+ runes only require 2 to upgrade and no gems, which can make the trading market for Um-Sur worse, even though it's easier to upgrade high runes, this is not a problem on Battle.net because it has much lower rates and gems have value there
The only solutions I can think of would be putting a limit on drop rate increases after 20 players in a game, slightly boost Runewords that nobody is using, make Set items (M'avina, Aldur, Immortal, etc) harder to obtain since they are being treated as "starter items", and make runes below Pul only require 2 to upgrade to help low level players with farming since rich people don't pickup runes below Mal.
Lampogriz
10-02-2016, 01:11 AM
I used tons of Ohm runes just for rerolling cta
Brimstonejack
10-02-2016, 02:55 AM
Not to mention that for high level items, people are asking only for gold. Even for items that can be farmed with basic set items. I understand that the server needs to make money, but really? I enjoy this server, and would love to keep on playing. But the market is fucked by not allowing people to transfer gold they earned from voting to make purchases. Spending cash for even basic items = People like me never being able to use the end-game content that brought me here.
Scorchz
10-02-2016, 07:23 AM
I used tons of Ohm runes just for rerolling cta proberly the only runeword that everyone makes , so there's another reason putting Ohm as a hr and a trading toll.
Not to mention that for high level items, people are asking only for gold. Even for items that can be farmed with basic set items. I understand that the server needs to make money, but really? I enjoy this server, and would love to keep on playing. But the market is fucked by not allowing people to transfer gold they earned from voting to make purchases. Spending cash for even basic items = People like me never being able to use the end-game content that brought me here.
How do you propose we prevent people from masking all sorts of hidden accounts and voting everyday, and moving the Gold to 1 account and quickly buying things? The market would instantly die.
Addah
10-02-2016, 09:30 AM
Not to mention that for high level items, people are asking only for gold. Even for items that can be farmed with basic set items. I understand that the server needs to make money, but really? I enjoy this server, and would love to keep on playing. But the market is fucked by not allowing people to transfer gold they earned from voting to make purchases. Spending cash for even basic items = People like me never being able to use the end-game content that brought me here.
Bad idea is bad.
If someone wants 11k gold for Sanctuary's Balance that's up to them, but they're receiving that gold based on the items in Hadriel and odds are nobody with 11k gold would give it for something you can get from a boss.
Spending cash for basic items? What items are you even talking about?
Gold has almost nothing to do with why the High Rune market is going downhill.
Brimstonejack
10-02-2016, 10:30 AM
How do you propose we prevent people from masking all sorts of hidden accounts and voting everyday, and moving the Gold to 1 account and quickly buying things? The market would instantly die.
What's to stop them from voting on every account and trading for Hadriel items, as is currently a fairly common practice? (Trading for Hadriel items, not multiaccounts)
And you could also limit accounts to 1 per IP on the website. Are there ways around this? Sure. But permanently banning accounts for transferring gold to the same IP is a start. There's gotta be a way we do this legitimately. I don't mind the idea of buying gold. But I think more people are likely to splurge every once in a while on a gold reserve they can freely trade than they are to buy gold every time they want to buy an item. But maybe it's my own anti-microtransaction rage.
Brimstonejack
10-02-2016, 10:33 AM
Bad idea is bad.
If someone wants 11k gold for Sanctuary's Balance that's up to them, but they're receiving that gold based on the items in Hadriel and odds are nobody with 11k gold would give it for something you can get from a boss.
Spending cash for basic items? What items are you even talking about?
Gold has almost nothing to do with why the High Rune market is going downhill.
Bad idea is bad? Useless cliche is useless.
Gold has nothing to do with rune market? Then why do you think they remove runes from Hadriel at the beginning of ladder resets?
Which basic items? Just go look at the Trading forums.
Trash post is trash.
What's to stop them from voting on every account and trading for Hadriel items, as is currently a fairly common practice? (Trading for Hadriel items, not multiaccounts)
And you could also limit accounts to 1 per IP on the website. Are there ways around this? Sure. But permanently banning accounts for transferring gold to the same IP is a start. There's gotta be a way we do this legitimately. I don't mind the idea of buying gold. But I think more people are likely to splurge every once in a while on a gold reserve they can freely trade than they are to buy gold every time they want to buy an item. But maybe it's my own anti-microtransaction rage.
The total difference is, when Gold starts to accumulate on the same account it's a lot easier to spot. If they are instantly moving the 60-120 Gold often it's much harder to see, and is way less obvious. We don't have the manpower to actively monitor this. It is just WAY too easy to hide IP addresses nowadays, it is completely unreliable method :(
Brimstonejack
10-02-2016, 10:50 AM
I can understand a manpower issue, and constant monitoring would be non-viable. But there's gotta be a way to discourage self-transferring that could be implemented.
I can understand a manpower issue, and constant monitoring would be non-viable. But there's gotta be a way to discourage self-transferring that could be implemented.
I've tried forever to think of something, it isn't like I haven't tried! There just isn't anything that really works without manual searches, which we simply cannot do.
bgtomsk
10-02-2016, 11:56 AM
I've tried forever to think of something, it isn't like I haven't tried! There just isn't anything that really works without manual searches, which we simply cannot do.
Have you tried to read mac-adresses via annihilus client? Then prevent accounts with same mac getting gold from vote (only 1 acc can get it). If you think that people who have more than 1 pc may overrun this, they can do it with the current rules just by buying things from different accounts and transfering them to one.
Addah
10-02-2016, 01:15 PM
Bad idea is bad? Useless cliche is useless.
Gold has nothing to do with rune market? Then why do you think they remove runes from Hadriel at the beginning of ladder resets?
Which basic items? Just go look at the Trading forums.
Trash post is trash.
Because that 1 example is literally the only situation where people would pay gold for runes, and we're talking about the other 99.9% of the time not just a short time after ladder reset.
Your example is bad because you make it sound like you can't earn any items or buy anything because it's all too expensive.
Transfering gold is not a big enough issue to single handedly bring down the market in the way we're discussing.
You can already trade the items you buy with gold, what your idea does is lets people farm votes and cheat the system, requiring an Admin to monitor it 24/7.
Brimstonejack
10-02-2016, 01:35 PM
Because that 1 example is literally the only situation where people would pay gold for runes, and we're talking about the other 99.9% of the time not just a short time after ladder reset.
Your example is bad because you make it sound like you can't earn any items or buy anything because it's all too expensive.
Transfering gold is not a big enough issue to single handedly bring down the market in the way we're discussing.
You can already trade the items you buy with gold, what your idea does is lets people farm votes and cheat the system, requiring an Admin to monitor it 24/7.
So, what you're basically saying is that because YOU don't have a solution to the problem, nobody else should look for one? Fuck outta my face with that bullshit.
Addah
10-02-2016, 01:40 PM
So, what you're basically saying is that because YOU don't have a solution to the problem, nobody else should look for one? Fuck outta my face with that bullshit.
I agree the high rune market could be better, and there's many reasons for why players behave this way.
1) Drop rates are "fairly" high, but there's a lot of rich people who log 50 mules to farm, so Computer performance profits farming, and them getting high runes so easily changes the market
2) Most Runeword items are not used because players skip straight to Sets for more bonuses/damage, so there is no system in place to consume "lower" high level runes
3) Pul+ runes only require 2 to upgrade and no gems, which can make the trading market for Um-Sur worse, even though it's easier to upgrade high runes, this is not a problem on Battle.net because it has much lower rates and gems have value there
The only solutions I can think of would be putting a limit on drop rate increases after 20 players in a game, slightly boost Runewords that nobody is using, make Set items (M'avina, Aldur, Immortal, etc) harder to obtain since they are being treated as "starter items", and make runes below Pul only require 2 to upgrade to help low level players with farming since rich people don't pickup runes below Mal.
Look before you leap, how's that for a cliche?
Brimstonejack
10-02-2016, 01:54 PM
Look before you leap, how's that for a cliche?
Ah, so when you have bad ideas, they're solutions. But when someone else makes a suggestion, you respond with cliches? Yeah, I'll just be ignoring everything your dumb, obtuse ass has to say from this point on.
NOTE: We need a block feature on the forum.
bgtomsk
10-02-2016, 01:54 PM
Look before you leap, how's that for a cliche?
its not a solution to the problem he talk about
bgtomsk
10-02-2016, 01:57 PM
Ah, so when you have bad ideas, they're solutions. But when someone else makes a suggestion, you respond with cliches? Yeah, I'll just be ignoring everything your dumb, obtuse ass has to say from this point on.
NOTE: We need a block feature on the forum.
should not write while on emotions, wait out, then write
Addah
10-02-2016, 02:01 PM
Ah, so when you have bad ideas, they're solutions. But when someone else makes a suggestion, you respond with cliches? Yeah, I'll just be ignoring everything your dumb, obtuse ass has to say from this point on.
No, a bad idea is always bad, Game also explains why allowing gold currency trading won't happen and has downsides.
In addition to my cliches I explained to you why it wouldn't work.
The multiple suggestions I made would help fix separate parts of the same problem, and part of that post is explaining details about the issue Scorchz said.
its not a solution to the problem he talk about
Oh I thought we're talking about the value of high runes as it relates to trading and the server economy
bgtomsk
10-02-2016, 02:07 PM
Oh I thought we're talking about the value of high runes as it relates to trading and the server economy
Not to mention that for high level items, people are asking only for gold. Even for items that can be farmed with basic set items. I understand that the server needs to make money, but really? I enjoy this server, and would love to keep on playing. But the market is fucked by not allowing people to transfer gold they earned from voting to make purchases. Spending cash for even basic items = People like me never being able to use the end-game content that brought me here.
not a single topic was raised here
as u said
Look before you leap
Addah
10-02-2016, 02:33 PM
not a single topic was raised here
as u said
Basically his idea is the market would be fixed if everyone could trade gold currency as opposed to simply trading the items you buy with gold, which doesn't seem realistic to me.
Not to mention that for high level items, people are asking only for gold. Even for items that can be farmed with basic set items. But the market is fucked by not allowing people to transfer gold they earned from voting to make purchases.
Game's reply that sums up the reason it won't happen, therefore it's a bad idea to implement
The total difference is, when Gold starts to accumulate on the same account it's a lot easier to spot. If they are instantly moving the 60-120 Gold often it's much harder to see, and is way less obvious. We don't have the manpower to actively monitor this. It is just WAY too easy to hide IP addresses nowadays, it is completely unreliable method :(
If he's talking about set items like M'avina or Immortal king, I cover this in my first post. If he means items like Constricting Ring or crafted items then I should of explained 1 Key of the Old Ones = 1 High Rune, which is what most people want when asking for gold.
Spending cash for even basic items = People like me never being able to use the end-game content that brought me here.
Gold has almost nothing to do with why the High Rune market is going downhill.
I said this because literally 0 people buy runes with gold, unless the ladder freshly resets like Brimestonejack pointed out.
My approach to the high rune economy is related directly to what you do with and how you obtain: High Runes. Gold plays practically no role in this because I know on average 250 gold, meanwhile Ber rune costs 800 gold at Hadriel.
Scorchz
10-02-2016, 04:48 PM
How about we just make Ohm+ an Hr lol , no more Ber+ , i'm sure alot of people would agree espicialy new player , The gold market is alright atm , imo you want to buy gold , thats find , i would even remove to Vote thing , and make gold even more valuable ! Decress the rune price obviously at hadriel
Scorchz
10-02-2016, 05:05 PM
Even better , since paying 20 to 100 $ for an item ( considering in d2 LoD online shop items could be 050¢ to 1.99$ ) lets remove vote gold , decrease item price from vendor and trade exemple soj worth atm 1500g maybe decrease it to 300g , that will make gold so much valuable !
Scorchz
10-02-2016, 05:05 PM
Cause it's abit crazy to pay 30 bucks lol for 1 item , i could order a full geared char for that
Brimstonejack
10-02-2016, 05:26 PM
Cause it's abit crazy to pay 30 bucks lol for 1 item , i could order a full geared char for that
I like Scorchz' idea. Remove vote gold, or maybe make it a separate currency that can still buy things like tokens and keys. Bought gold can be transferable at that point.
The issue is you guys are just focusing on one piece of the puzzle. You realize if we took away voting Gold, nobody would vote, and we'd fall from #1 (http://annihilus.net/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=1) on those voting websites? Do you know how many people are here because of those websites? The market would die even more because we'd have single digit players. I have no plans to overhaul the Gold system anytime soon because of the massive effect it could potentially have on the market, sorry guys.
Brimstonejack
10-02-2016, 07:34 PM
The issue is you guys are just focusing on one piece of the puzzle. You realize if we took away voting Gold, nobody would vote, and we'd fall from #1 (http://annihilus.net/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=1) on those voting websites? Do you know how many people are here because of those websites? The market would die even more because we'd have single digit players. I have no plans to overhaul the Gold system anytime soon because of the massive effect it could potentially have on the market, sorry guys.
Didn't forget that point. It's why i suggested having it as a separate currency. ;)
Didn't forget that point. It's why i suggested having it as a separate currency. ;)
I am sure votes would still be cut by atleast half, also who in the world is going to re-code all of Diablo 2 to make 2 types of Gold currencies? :) I hardly have time to get out a somewhat smaller than usual patch, no way I can find time to do that just for something that is just a bandaid :/
Brimstonejack
10-02-2016, 07:39 PM
Perhaps vote currency could stored and used for things via the website. You can obviously generate custom items, maybe make some voter exclusive items, slightly less powerful than the top-tier items you'd expect people to use gold for?
Brimstonejack
10-02-2016, 07:41 PM
Maybe even a Voter Set, somewhere between elite sets and Cow set?
Jared
10-02-2016, 07:46 PM
vex + is a hr dawg
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