GM LLD Rule Discussion

[Lockzilla]

And yet both realms are actually going pretty strong I think they compliment each other as sister servers quite well!

I think its good to have both up. One brings in more then enough to pay for both servers which is overall good for both! There are other issues, nothing to big, and were dealing with them as we go. So overall everything is working good so far.

[FromTheRez]

Did Vav assume the realms genders?

[Parc]

I was born annihilus, but decided I felt more like a d2pk. I therefor went through serious psychological help and support to get my servers changed.

[FromTheRez]

Upon testing, in order to make some balance, we are currently allowing:

10% max FIRE resist
5% max POISON resist

Poison Javelin skills have been unbanned

[FromTheRez]

frw limits & excessive wsg should be discussed. heavily.

we play for fun, not pride
that is pride play

[Brimstonejack]

Yeah, there's nothing more boring and cheap than having a bowazon with insane frw spamming unlimited arrows from 2 screens away, and when you catch up with her, she simply outruns your projectiles with plenty of time to keep stopping and returning fire.

[Lockzilla]

I think we see why they had a FWR cap on east/west. So we can do some testing on FWR cap. And set a rule for it.

[Parc]

A FRW cap would heavily punish melee characters like Fury Druids/WW barbs, which also use frw sc's to catch running characters. It's also a bad idea to make sorcs stronger by punishing all non-teleporting/charging characters.

As for WSG, I suggest we add a rule that prevents WSG when you're not under a namelock. For instance, it would be fine to use against a teleporting character that tries to stomp you, or a trapsin spamming mind blast and traps, but using it just to synch harder in blood moor while not under any heat would be illegal.

As for my personal opinion, I think Bowzons are overpowered, but I think adding a frw/wsg rule is moot. There's already more things that makes you intentionally synch harder (like using vigor when you charge hdin).

The GM rule list should be kept short and simple, restricting only what's blatantly OP/breaks the game. WSG/high frw isn't what makes zons overpowered. That's just dealing with surface problems. I'm pretty sure a bowzon with just 70 frw from circ+sanders would be just as dominating as a 150 frw bowzon.

The problem lies where she can: 1- Shoot a hooming projectile that 2- cannot be outrun and that 3- deals high amounts of dmg. Regardless of the matchup, a bowazon is always the character that has to be chased, because her range is so high and GA impossible to dodge. That's where we need to discuss for a nerf, not a frw cap or wsg.

Here's a suggestion from my part: limit the amount of hard skill points in Guided Arrow and Critical Strike to maximum 1. It would reduce their dmg output, giving the attackers more chance to catch her off/capitalize on mistakes. We can start off with that and see where it goes?

[Brimstonejack]

I disagree. #1: Zons can literally run circles around characters firing projectiles at them with plenty of time to return fire, and #2: spam from off screen while making sure nobody can even get on their screen. If somebody teles on their screen, see #1. And using the tele stick to get on their screen? Great. You just lost all your block and got hit by half a dozen GA. We need either a frw cap or enigma of peace so we can block while teleporting. And before anyone chimes in with some garbage about eop "breaking LLD," EVERYONE can use it, so it doesn't give any unfair advantages. It does allow for a ton of new builds, just like enigma does in HLD.
Also, most GA dmg doesn't come from hard points. It comes from gear points and charms. I propose a compromise: FRW caps for zons can be slightly higher than other builds so she still has a bit of a mobility advantage. Need more moboility? Use the tele stick. Or EoP.

[Parc]

#1: Zons can literally run circles around characters firing projectiles at them with plenty of time to return fire

Can be said for any character in the game. I could be a trapsin/necro/sorcs/hdins/throw barb and do the exact samething I did to you last tournament. Your strategy involving standing still, spamming bone spirits hoping they will land is a bad one while peope run around you and firing back, isn't a good one.

#2: spam from off screen while making sure nobody can even get on their screen. If somebody teles on their screen, see #1. And using the tele stick to get on their screen? Great. You just lost all your block and got hit by half a dozen GA.

Yeah that's the problem, GA is too strong as is. And telestaff doesn't help with that like you said.

We need either a frw cap or enigma of peace so we can block while teleporting. And before anyone chimes in with some garbage about eop "breaking LLD," EVERYONE can use it, so it doesn't give any unfair advantages. It does allow for a ton of new builds, just like enigma does in HLD.

By "breaking LLD", we don't mean that it's gonna be overpowered. As you said, everyone would be able to use it. If everyone is overpowered, nothing is overpowered.

What we mean is that the point of LLD is to get away from HLD, away from all the items /strategies that are staple in HLD. Why would I want LLD to be more like HLD? I'd jsut play HLD then. People who like LLD are also people who liked dueling before 1.10 (the patch introducing nigma). They like the feeling where you have to duel by running, not teleporting. That's what we mean by breaking LLD. I guess a clearer way to say this would be that adding EoP would remove what makes LLD special/unique/fun. All the hybrid runewords are super BM across all regions on bnet and are considered lame by every LLD'ers I know. You're like the only one that wants them introduced.

Also, most GA dmg doesn't come from hard points. It comes from gear points and charms. I propose a compromise: FRW caps for zons can be slightly higher than other builds so she still has a bit of a mobility advantage. Need more moboility? Use the tele stick. Or EoP.

It's true that GA gets most their dmg from charms/jewels/dex points, not skill points, but it's at least a start. I'm sure some people have better ideas

The main argument I'm trying to make is that even if frw sc's were banned and wsg banned completely, bowzons would still rek everything. Mobility is not what makes them OP.