Paladin: Charge

[LordManhammer]

I'm going to start brainstorming some ideas for improving the Paladin. I think we can all agree that the class feels soft at the moment. I'll write a more in depth post later when I'm at my computer. For now here's a thought to chew on. Paladins need an aoe stun mechanic. Something to rival the Barb with his shield throw or even the endgame WW build that uses a Buster sword or the Barb prime charm with "attacks stun enemies." You could add an aoe stun mechanic to Charge. It's something that nobody uses for PVE and seeing as how most of the Paladin's skills compliment each other (zeal and fanaticism; blessed hammer and concentration or searing light for a debuff) opening with a charge to stun your enemies and then finishing them off with zeal would fit with this theme. Or....you could add the stun mechanic to zeal itself. I know, people will be like "OMG zeal too OP!" but would it be? Shield throw can be used at range to stun lock enemies while killing them quickly. Seems like adding stun to zeal would just be a weaker version of the Barb's strongest attack. At the very least zeal needs a massive attack rating boost.

[Mephisto]

Smite stuns target
Stun with smite switch to zeal?
I use charge to actually chargelock some mobs and stun them that way, charge them in the wall and trap them with smite, if thats not enough stun u can consider using a item with warcry on hit, to stun every1 around u, when u get hit.

I think that the stun makes the barb a special thing to play, and it makes him more unique to pick.

But yeah ur right Charge is more of a movement thing then something u actually attack with. Hammer is a nice AOE spell tho, since it gives u life on hit / and u can cast all kind of things with it.

Also dont forget if ur a zealer, u should try debating using the Heavens Fury, it got foh on hit, and u will cast so many foh when hitting, u will basicly stun the target aswell not for long, but still!

[LordManhammer]

AOE stun. Smite is a shitty way to accomplish what the Barb can do without even having to aim or be within melee range.

[LordManhammer]

Even a Bear Druid can stun entire groups of monsters now with shockwave and the Druid can have up to 9 meat shield summons along with 20 Ravens. Giving the pally an aoe stun mechanic isn't too much to ask

[Mephisto]

Yeah but can u imagine a 150K Lightzealer stunning everything around him? That would be way to powerfull imo. A physical zealer on the other hand with lifetap or any other source of getting life/hit can easilly tank a group of monsters, i rather have them coming at me as a zealer then stunning them and make the monsters shatter/split up. Why do you feel u need to stun (groups of)targets with a paladin? Just wondering

[LordManhammer]

I'm approaching this topic as an old school fan of the Paladin class. I know that there are ways to make the class function better with uber gear but at it's core it just feels really bad until you acquire the bestest gear and fully socket and enchant it. I use my pally to smite certain bosses to death and that's about it. I'm also completely fine with the class remaining a situational option. I like my smiter but there are way better builds from other classes that handle end game content and that's what I will use. I just think it would be cool for a Paladin build to be strong against end game again. I honestly think that Thunderfury needs to be removed from the game. If making improvements to the Pally's melee capabilities are being passed over because of one sword that very few people can get their hands on, it's either time to accept that the light zealer will be super OP for those fortunate few or just get rid of that item altogether. Balancing a class based on one item is just silly.

[Mephisto]

Also there's Stormlash ( Thunderstorm ) stuns target around as well, there's so many more things for a paladin out there then just a thunderfury zealer thats viable for endgear, for example:

A smiter/zealer based on Cold damage with the Frostmourne.
A smiter/zealer based with Magic gear using the El-Druin
A physical Stormlash zealer ( Stuns with thunderstorm like said before ) + Massive nado's, static on hit.
A lightzealer/smiter with Heavens Fury, dealing lightdamage more physical dmg/ar then the Thunderfury variant, but less Lightdmg
A poison zealer/smiter with the Plaguebringer along with some poison gear ( Kaluut? Carrions? Atma's? )
The Hammerdin, that people havent really tried ( its based on melee damage now )
Im sure im forgetting some of them, im just saying there's alot of ways to go

[LordManhammer]

Hammerdin is pretty cool now but, as others have pointed out, even with 70k+ damage it still feels clunky. It might be time to reimagine how that skill works as well. Like, completely. I'm talking about maybe changing the way that it's cast. Something similar to the way Poison Maelstrom works perhaps?

[LordManhammer]

I have a feeling that @Game was entertaining the idea of changing some other skills besides Blessed Hammer. The description of the Vengeance skill had something about a "wave of magic damage to vanquish your enemies" when patch 4.0 dropped but he quickly fixed it. Maybe it was a glimpse of something that'll change in the future?!

[LordManhammer]

Yes, yes I know I've tried most of those options at one point or another and they are pretty good but they still feel weak compared to every other melee class with the same gear(except maybe the kicksin, I haven't bothered to try that yet). Keep in mind that I'm not saying that you can't clear content with a zealer in its current state. I know it's doable. I speed leveled another pally recently to test its viability with different gear that I was able to get my hands on in this ladder that I haven't had in the past. You can't definitely play the game all the way through with a zealer/smiter. That's the way that I've always done it in the past but on Annihilus the other classes out shine the pally in every way. To me that's not a bad thing. I love that I can now actually enjoy the game play of a poison necro. I still think that making some improvements to melee pally builds that won't over shadow other classes.

I bet that if you pit a Bear Druid using shockwave against a Zealadin, the Bear Druid will come out on top in every situation. Even if you fully gear the pally and equip only the same weapon on the Druid. That might sound ridiculous but it's not as much of an exaggeration as you might think

Edit: I would love to get my hands on a Stormlash. It seems like it's almost the rarest item on the server atm. Does anyone even have one yet?