GM LLD Rule Discussion

[Brimstonejack]

I disagree. #1: Zons can literally run circles around characters firing projectiles at them with plenty of time to return fire, and #2: spam from off screen while making sure nobody can even get on their screen. If somebody teles on their screen, see #1. And using the tele stick to get on their screen? Great. You just lost all your block and got hit by half a dozen GA. We need either a frw cap or enigma of peace so we can block while teleporting. And before anyone chimes in with some garbage about eop "breaking LLD," EVERYONE can use it, so it doesn't give any unfair advantages. It does allow for a ton of new builds, just like enigma does in HLD.
Also, most GA dmg doesn't come from hard points. It comes from gear points and charms. I propose a compromise: FRW caps for zons can be slightly higher than other builds so she still has a bit of a mobility advantage. Need more moboility? Use the tele stick. Or EoP.

[Parc]

#1: Zons can literally run circles around characters firing projectiles at them with plenty of time to return fire

Can be said for any character in the game. I could be a trapsin/necro/sorcs/hdins/throw barb and do the exact samething I did to you last tournament. Your strategy involving standing still, spamming bone spirits hoping they will land is a bad one while peope run around you and firing back, isn't a good one.

#2: spam from off screen while making sure nobody can even get on their screen. If somebody teles on their screen, see #1. And using the tele stick to get on their screen? Great. You just lost all your block and got hit by half a dozen GA.

Yeah that's the problem, GA is too strong as is. And telestaff doesn't help with that like you said.

We need either a frw cap or enigma of peace so we can block while teleporting. And before anyone chimes in with some garbage about eop "breaking LLD," EVERYONE can use it, so it doesn't give any unfair advantages. It does allow for a ton of new builds, just like enigma does in HLD.

By "breaking LLD", we don't mean that it's gonna be overpowered. As you said, everyone would be able to use it. If everyone is overpowered, nothing is overpowered.

What we mean is that the point of LLD is to get away from HLD, away from all the items /strategies that are staple in HLD. Why would I want LLD to be more like HLD? I'd jsut play HLD then. People who like LLD are also people who liked dueling before 1.10 (the patch introducing nigma). They like the feeling where you have to duel by running, not teleporting. That's what we mean by breaking LLD. I guess a clearer way to say this would be that adding EoP would remove what makes LLD special/unique/fun. All the hybrid runewords are super BM across all regions on bnet and are considered lame by every LLD'ers I know. You're like the only one that wants them introduced.

Also, most GA dmg doesn't come from hard points. It comes from gear points and charms. I propose a compromise: FRW caps for zons can be slightly higher than other builds so she still has a bit of a mobility advantage. Need more moboility? Use the tele stick. Or EoP.

It's true that GA gets most their dmg from charms/jewels/dex points, not skill points, but it's at least a start. I'm sure some people have better ideas

The main argument I'm trying to make is that even if frw sc's were banned and wsg banned completely, bowzons would still rek everything. Mobility is not what makes them OP.

[FromTheRez]

I disagree. #1: Zons can literally run circles around characters firing projectiles at them with plenty of time to return fire, and #2: spam from off screen while making sure nobody can even get on their screen. If somebody teles on their screen, see #1. And using the tele stick to get on their screen? Great. You just lost all your block and got hit by half a dozen GA. We need either a frw cap or enigma of peace so we can block while teleporting. And before anyone chimes in with some garbage about eop "breaking LLD," EVERYONE can use it, so it doesn't give any unfair advantages. It does allow for a ton of new builds, just like enigma does in HLD.
Also, most GA dmg doesn't come from hard points. It comes from gear points and charms. I propose a compromise: FRW caps for zons can be slightly higher than other builds so she still has a bit of a mobility advantage. Need more moboility? Use the tele stick. Or EoP.

"Huuuhr duuuhrrr we need eop but tele staff is bm"
your logic is fucked

for real, please never bring that garbage armor into LLD here

[Brimstonejack]

"Huuuhr duuuhrrr we need eop but tele staff is bm"
your logic is fucked

for real, please never bring that garbage armor into LLD here

Never said tele staff was bm. I sad it was a poor option, based on the idea that in order to use it, you're ditching your ability to block, as well as taking a hit to your resists. In essence, I was clearly stating that it was UNDERpowered, not Op, or BM. I also never stated that we NEED EoP, but rather it would be another option if we don't want to place limits on FRW. But please, continue to make ableist statements while proving that you lack basic reading comprehension skills. Or just keep getting mad that people are looking for ways to fix issues you seem all too happy to let slide, so long as it means you get to keep exploiting overpowered characters. Cheers,