I don't buy that whatsoever aside from the fact that yes a lightning zealer is pretty much difficult to make without material from accomplishing the crucible. That is true.
I also do not buy for a minute that people have been that lucky with cow queen sets. I have yet to even see or hear of one piece drop after all the runs I've done and that's with players with more mf I could hope to have anytime soon.
Ok I dont think you really understand whats going on here. Lucid is entirely right about this. A golem mancer isnt a tank. Its golems are the tanks. Since clay golems slow the effected monster; reducing the number of spells and attacks it throws out and are incredibly tanky, they allow you to tank difficult bosses very easily. (if it weren't for clay golems, lich king items would be much rarer) The necro itself, just needs to cast the appropriate curse and then hide in the corner. That makes it a strong and (more importantly for a reset) cheap support character. So early on in a ladder reset, there is no better support character than a golemancer vs bosses.Originally Posted by vaudeville
As for the DPS role, currently the javazon is the best overall DPS character in the game. Its just very hard to gear so you dont see many of them. It has the highest single-target dps with charged strike. (Charged strike does more damage then zeal and doesnt have an attack rating, it also does more damage than smiters at perfect gear) Its aoe is almost as good as the bowzons as well. Where it loses to the zealers is in areas like plaguelands and inferno areas, where the monsters arent clumped enough for lightning fury to be effective and their hitboxes are too small for charged strike to one-shot them. In those areas, its lack of sustain hurts as well.
The best DPS role for a ladder reset is up for debate now. I havent tested this, but I think an orb sorc may be able to compete with the javazon now vs bosses. Its super cheap to gear, and a skilled orber has high single target damage. Its also safer than a javazon at that stage and the change to cold mastery means it doesnt care about immunes anymore. At a ladder reset, I may suggest a orb sorc over a javzon in some scenarios. A good sorc can dodge sindragosas much easier than a javzon can for example. There may be others that are competitive now with the change to immunities that I havent thought of. I would be curious what others thought about this.
Also, Ill note that skilled teams can routinely clear endgame content and find many of the gg items early on in a season. If you are familiar with Diablo 2 at all, you know that this is routine even before the bot-hordes kick in. They know how to work together and utilize loot tables to find exactly what they need. Most people just dont have the know-how or the time to do this.
As for your larger concern about the item curve. Before this most recent patch, I would have agreed with you that the curve was too steep. For basically every character, it was basically a tale of two lives: life before cowset and life after cowset. The only characters whose best-in-slot items did not include cowset were basically builds who used the shrieking lich and glass-cannon bowzons. I cant think of any others.
I dont think its sunk in for a lot of people yet. But that has now changed. It is now the case that rares are the best-in-slot items for most slots since they have the potential to roll better than any unique that doesnt have a build-defining proc or spell-effect. So rares can be extremely powerful now at the very end game. In addition, they can be very strong early on. Even the low-medium rares can be very effective for people without much wealth early in a season. They allow you to farm content effectively until you can get even better rares or those build-defining uniques you need to complete your builds. You just need to be able to determine what stats your character needs and hunt for rares accordingly. This is something anyone with a working knowledge of Diablo 2 can do. If you need help on what stats you need for what builds, well thats what the forums are for. Plenty of people around here (myself included) will be happy to help you with these things.
Happy Hunting
Last edited by rrra; 04-06-2016 at 03:35 PM.
That is exactly what I was shooting for, and I am glad people realize it! Rares have a LOT of potential now. Sure they don't have certain unique effects like auras, skill modifiers, or anything like that, but they can provide an awesome amount of stats with a decent roll. This opened the door to so much more possibility. It helps new players get started, it gives veteran players something to farm and can literally do just about any content in the game to find them so it doesn't get boring, and it lets people have a crazy amount of builds to work with. These rares by any means did not make the endgame uniques / sets useless, it just gives you some choice! You can still use cow set or any of the old builds and still be just as strong, or you can use rares as well. Patch 3.2 was a really big game changer when it comes to items, I hope more and more people realize just how much variety there is now!Ok I dont think you really understand whats going on here. Lucid is entirely right about this. A golem mancer isnt a tank. Its golems are the tanks. Since clay golems slow the effected monster; reducing the number of spells and attacks it throws out and are incredibly tanky, they allow you to tank difficult bosses very easily. (if it weren't for clay golems, lich king items would be much rarer) The necro itself, just needs to cast the appropriate curse and then hide in the corner. That makes it a strong and (more importantly for a reset) cheap support character. So early on in a ladder reset, there is no better support character than a golemancer vs bosses.
As for the DPS role, currently the javazon is the best overall DPS character in the game. Its just very hard to gear so you dont see many of them. It has the highest single-target dps with charged strike. (Charged strike does more damage then zeal and doesnt have an attack rating, it also does more damage than smiters at perfect gear) Its aoe is almost as good as the bowzons as well. Where it loses to the zealers is in areas like plaguelands and inferno areas, where the monsters arent clumped enough for lightning fury to be effective and their hitboxes are too small for charged strike to one-shot them. In those areas, its lack of sustain hurts as well.
The best DPS role for a ladder reset is up for debate now. I havent tested this, but I think an orb sorc may be able to compete with the javazon now vs bosses. Its super cheap to gear, and a skilled orber has high single target damage. Its also safer than a javazon at that stage and the change to cold mastery means it doesnt care about immunes anymore. At a ladder reset, I may suggest a orb sorc over a javzon in some scenarios. A good sorc can dodge sindragosas much easier than a javzon can for example. There may be others that are competitive now with the change to immunities that I havent thought of. I would be curious what others thought about this.
As for your larger concern about the item curve. Before this most recent patch, I would have agreed with you that the curve was too steep. For basically every character, it was basically a tale of two lives: life before cowset and life after cowset. The only characters whose best-in-slot items did not include cowset were basically builds who used the shrieking lich and glass-cannon bowzons. I cant think of any others.
I dont think its sunk in for a lot of people yet. But that has now changed. It is now the case that rares are the best-in-slot items for most slots since they have the potential to roll better than any unique that doesnt have a build-defining proc or spell-effect. So rares can be extremely powerful now at the very end game. In addition, they can be very strong early on. Even the low-medium rares can be very effective for people without much wealth early in a season. They allow you to farm content effectively until you can get even better rares or those build-defining uniques you need to complete your builds. You just need to be able to determine what stats your character needs and hunt for rares accordingly. This is something anyone with a working knowledge of Diablo 2 can do. If you need help on what stats you need for what builds, well thats what the forums are for. Plenty of people around here (myself included) will be happy to help you with these things.
Happy Hunting
Actually rrra, I do understand that and yet again it sounds as if you folks think I don't know how this game works. What I don't understand though is how are you supposed to have a good golemancer and javazon when you don't have good enough equipment for either and the only way you can "tank" well with golems is with that equipment. THAT is the point. Nothing else. And that is why I have shown frustration with most of the comments here because many of you seem to think you'll just get all those items you need within days if not a few weeks even after a reset which I can only see happening with lady luck being right by your side the whole time.
I have yet to see a modestly equipped duo of the javazon and golemancer do well against any end game content (golemancer and paladin yes, but not a javazon and golemancer. You would have to run that experiment to dispel my pessimistic view. I take it you and a friend will have no trouble taking the lich king with just the trag stuff for the necromancer (and therefore summoning only 1 golem) and whatever mediocre equipment a javazon would have.
a javazon would have.
Its still a mod, with only one person working on it.
And the ladder reset like requested wont change a thing, like i already said.
I personally find it very good as it is. Maybe its just not meant, to solo all endgameareas without dying?!
Also there are some more classes that can tank, like valkyrie ama or summonerdrood. But like at the zealers inba'ness, the golemancer is far ahead in tanking.
To nerf or buff the classes into a balanced state is never really possible.
You would have to balance pvp to pvm and every class at the same level... Not even big programming teams are able to do that. How could Game do?
And I know.. He does an amazing job. He is very talented and I totally respect him. But there's too big of a gap. You can sit here and tell me reason why, but it's not going to change in game. There is a problem, and if the player base doesn't say anything about it maybe he'll never know. I'm not saying nerf or buff classes. Just simply introduce better items. A ladder reset and a new vamp of easier ubers and possible farming area would do this server a lot of good. Something has to be there for the new players that got from level 1-90 in an hour. They don't have gear, what do they do? Quit. Simple as that, they see all these GODLY players and don't have that amount of time. An area with decent life and decent damage, with nice drops would be nice. But something with a shitty drop rate already and the things take a year to kill for a new player. Why would they invest time here? Seems like, the richer get richer kind of deal. And what do rich people do mostly? Some will help, but most will take advantage of everything.
Hammerdin was superior for boss killing and botting. That was about it, so many other thing outclassed him in every other way. so many other builds that shine.. Light Sorc? Java Zon? Cold Sorc? Summon necro? So many things were useful on reg d2. Atleast, I could play a trap sin lol. Smiters have no fucking damage lol... Even with 100% crushing blow, you're still sitting there for a year. Well, unless you have every end item in the game already like you. Then yeah, it wouldn't be hard to not die. Getting there in the first place is the challenge for new players. Plus very time consuming.
Last edited by James; 04-05-2016 at 08:59 AM.
Totally agree with James....it meant to be fun, not time consuming.....we are not 14 years old anymore...
P.S RESPECT TO ALL THE ADMINS AND THE OWNER!
Annihilus Account: Mephisto
There will allways be superior classes, look at the original diablo. Hammerdin rings a bell?
Hammerdin was the only thing that was used, in here u can use so many more classes!
Im still using a smiter, and it wont die, even for new content, where i see those light zealers die quite some times.
Snake Champion!I think what you posted is mostly right, maybe not the ladder reset part, but the item situation for sure.
For me a ladder reset is not about the items, you can farm it eventually anyway. It's about leveling up, exploring everything as first, reaching 99 as first and the increased player base in this time period. I wanted more ladder resets too, but for that reason. Not for item reset. I agree with Lucid there. But that beside, it's ok if you think differently there...
The problem imo is, we have no real mid class player base, as you said. You are in this position right now. There are too few players, and as you said, if you level 1-90 and stay there with no gear but tedious boss fights and 1k hours ahead of you. There is no real content to justify that amount of time to get to that level. You shouldn't compare yourself with that, but of course you do, players want to reach the highest level obviously.
Key hunting is time consuming, also frag parts and all of that. 24 SoH for a soulstone may sound like a cool idea, but is stupid if you allow endless loaders, could just make it 3 SoH and drop one each time. Like 2 patches ago we had a aware "bug" that dropped two organ sets for one key set. Considering the ease to level chars, the time to spend and now even recipes with annis, I think that should NOT have been "fixed".
In my opinion, d2 bnet vanilla was so fun to run, because at every point, or almost every, you could get every item. The things you farmed, no matter where, were always kinda rewarding and allowing you to progress. Of course, there was still ubers, but you don't farm them, as you farm dreamlands or plaguelands here now. The items were more balanced in general and you knew there uses already. Also with basic selffound stuff you could do the hardest parts of the game, like Ubers. You can't do that here so easily.
We should care to not have a "power creep" (see: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/648126) effect for the server here. If new content and items gets added, old will get obsolete. If you wanna fight high Cruci stuff, you need the gear of Dreamlands for example. It's similar with what you said, farming cows for hours just to get that HRs that can't directly (e.g. via rune words) help you, but instead you need to collect like ~20 to get a single piece of good item is stupid. I'm not saying we have this situation here, but especially if we get new content, that is limited to "rich" people we will stick with the community we have and new player will stop after a very short while, because it is not as casual as they wanted it to be and really too hard to catch up.
Again, I haven't played 3.2. I can't say how much the changes there work against what I said. I saw some good fixes for sure.
Also I want to mention this is indeed a new mod server. The idea of the server is challenging and should not be fully compared to bnet in every aspect, especially economy and pvm or non yet existent pvp. For players with a lot of time it is surely really good as it is, but I fully support what you are saying needs to get attention too.
Hi!
imo its just a question of... char building and inestissement. i am kind of in the same situation, even if i started to play feqw months ago...
but trust me your necro WONT be able to do much, BUT he can EASELY do PL, do like we all did farm it , with lichking again and again, get frost mourne and sets...
then you can do uber cow, of course you wont kill the Rlyeh boss... unless you ll do a pala, smiter to kill it and get Boxes, that you will be able to open for free when some one will open a cthulu.
with that same smiter you will be able to make plaguelands, you cant do all 4 bosses because of lake of stuff? Right make an java then, with comon stuff and some time you can do 2 boss with java and the 2 other with pala.
Got it ? then make few hell cow with your java//necro to get some HR to make few rw.... thats kinda it, then it will become harder to get good chars to make crucibles and new area....i am at this point... but because i am lazy to make chars to be able to make solo crucible, and die and try hard again ... maybe so hard you
GL dude!
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