Endgame difficulty curve.

[vaudeville]

Ehmm. A serverreset hurts new guys more than rich guys o.O

No free sets to get newbs started.

The rich will just play up golemancer + java and making the endgameareas after a week or two.

While newb maybe found full mav in between, our 15-20 pros have their thunderfurys again and selling good stuff for tons of hrs to those newbs.

= after a month or two, we are exactly where we are now...

Just my opinion...

...what?

1) Yes there won't be free sets for new players if there was a ladder reset, but neither will there be anything for any one in the meantime.

2) This statement is patently absurd. Not only do you make it sound like first both the golemancer and javazon are the best classes/builds (the former is useless without a tank and the latter doesn't even compare to a zeal paladin), but you would have us believe that within 1 to 2 weeks people will, after a reset no less, get all the things either classes will need from endgame material. Really? So you expect that to just magically get the cow queen set the first few times you do Inferno cows? How are you going to get past Azathoth and his minions the first time? How are you going to deal with the lich king for that matter the first couple of times? How about the crucible? There is no way you will get the best equipment with both classes in 2 weeks without cheating.

[vaudeville]

I just want to reiterate my main point in this thread by asking why can't there be an actual curve? Why can't certain items which aren't even that great in the long run such as mal and ist runes (I think I'll try to make a small list in the next post) drop more often? Why not make uber or omega runs worth while both to new and older players where the latter is willing to help the former by getting them torches, annihilus charms, abyss spheres, and tomes if the drops (in particular say with runes) are increased? Is that really too much to ask if you want people to stick around?

[vaudeville]

So here is the list so far of particular items I think whose drop rate should increase with the main purpose being to get players t advance at a certain pace. Note that this will of course be a work in progress.

Regarding runes
Increase in general (and yes I do mean in general) but very slightly the drop rates for all runes, but with everything below mal being the most and everything after ohm being the least. The new "middle runes" (mal through ohm) ought to help newer players advance more if the drop rate for such is better than it is now. Perhaps such should be increased in uber or omega areas.

Regarding blue organs
I know these aren't too find to hard, but perhaps the drop rate for such ought to be tweaked a little more higher (certainly something to be considered if everything else is ignored).

To be continued/edited

[Lucid]

...what?

1) Yes there won't be free sets for new players if there was a ladder reset, but neither will there be anything for any one in the meantime.

2) This statement is patently absurd. Not only do you make it sound like first both the golemancer and javazon are the best classes/builds (the former is useless without a tank and the latter doesn't even compare to a zeal paladin), but you would have us believe that within 1 to 2 weeks people will, after a reset no less, get all the things either classes will need from endgame material. Really? So you expect that to just magically get the cow queen set the first few times you do Inferno cows? How are you going to get past Azathoth and his minions the first time? How are you going to deal with the lich king for that matter the first couple of times? How about the crucible? There is no way you will get the best equipment with both classes in 2 weeks without cheating.

jep. im exactly saying this.

There are people having cowset after a week or two.
If im right, i did lichking in between the first week even without a golemancer by my side.

i spoke of java + golemancer, cuz this is what you will need to have after a serverreset. There will be no lightning zealer...
you may forget, that the first crucible clear has to be without stuffs from crucible. This pretty much proves, that is doable :3 otherwise we wouldnt have thunderfurys at all.

There are people/teams playing all day long and doing all the endgamestuffs that early. It will be like i said: While you are having your mavina full set finally, somebody else is joining your game with tons of effects around him and gosu stuffs.
And guess who will be that. The rich people were the ones, that played the most and didnt care about what classes perform best.
They were the richest in the last season (when i started), they are the richest now and they will stay the richest after the next reset.

So: a reset doesnt change THAT specific richness thing. No way.

Also: I really like resets and the start without having anything. Its not that i just argue against, so there wont be a reset.
If you do it earlier, i appreciate it. But i just say, that it will change things for maybe a few weeks or the first months...

----------------------------

OH and back 2 topic:

The easiest way would be, to stretch out crucible a bit (like 30 levels). The level 20 should stay as it is and become lvl 30.
The first few levels (from 1-10) should be stretched to the new 1-20.

This will: Make 4 "easy" bosses, that everyone even without golemancer should be able to kill.

4 bosses each dropping 100% one or two of 10 different items would end up being 40 items, that are pretty easy to get.
The hardest part probably will be to make items that are not op and also making items that are for viable classes.

the crucible as it is, is a little bad atm... Good stuffs drop at lvl15+20, which you cannot reach without golemancer / a team.
And the first two bosses are so easy, everone can farm it. And the 100% chance on only 2-3 items per boss makes me not even loot this things... I just let the items from the first boss lie on the ground, cuz they are bad and more common than blue rings.
And the second boss' items are farmed pretty fast if you really would need em some day. But for the moment they just fill up your mules. So.. if they are not perfect, i let them on the ground also.

ends up in crucible beeing boring for me after 2-3 times of reaching level 14 solo.

if only the bosses would drop 10 items each. And one of those items being more rare than the others (and better ofc), then farming would make sense at least. Or?

regards.

oh btw, read this @Game if you have some spare minutes

[vaudeville]

I don't buy that whatsoever aside from the fact that yes a lightning zealer is pretty much difficult to make without material from accomplishing the crucible. That is true.

I also do not buy for a minute that people have been that lucky with cow queen sets. I have yet to even see or hear of one piece drop after all the runs I've done and that's with players with more mf I could hope to have anytime soon.

[rrra]

2) This statement is patently absurd. Not only do you make it sound like first both the golemancer and javazon are the best classes/builds (the former is useless without a tank and the latter doesn't even compare to a zeal paladin), but you would have us believe that within 1 to 2 weeks people will, after a reset no less, get all the things either classes will need from endgame material. Really? So you expect that to just magically get the cow queen set the first few times you do Inferno cows? How are you going to get past Azathoth and his minions the first time? How are you going to deal with the lich king for that matter the first couple of times? How about the crucible? There is no way you will get the best equipment with both classes in 2 weeks without cheating.

Ok I dont think you really understand whats going on here. Lucid is entirely right about this. A golem mancer isnt a tank. Its golems are the tanks. Since clay golems slow the effected monster; reducing the number of spells and attacks it throws out and are incredibly tanky, they allow you to tank difficult bosses very easily. (if it weren't for clay golems, lich king items would be much rarer) The necro itself, just needs to cast the appropriate curse and then hide in the corner. That makes it a strong and (more importantly for a reset) cheap support character. So early on in a ladder reset, there is no better support character than a golemancer vs bosses.

As for the DPS role, currently the javazon is the best overall DPS character in the game. Its just very hard to gear so you dont see many of them. It has the highest single-target dps with charged strike. (Charged strike does more damage then zeal and doesnt have an attack rating, it also does more damage than smiters at perfect gear) Its aoe is almost as good as the bowzons as well. Where it loses to the zealers is in areas like plaguelands and inferno areas, where the monsters arent clumped enough for lightning fury to be effective and their hitboxes are too small for charged strike to one-shot them. In those areas, its lack of sustain hurts as well.

The best DPS role for a ladder reset is up for debate now. I havent tested this, but I think an orb sorc may be able to compete with the javazon now vs bosses. Its super cheap to gear, and a skilled orber has high single target damage. Its also safer than a javazon at that stage and the change to cold mastery means it doesnt care about immunes anymore. At a ladder reset, I may suggest a orb sorc over a javzon in some scenarios. A good sorc can dodge sindragosas much easier than a javzon can for example. There may be others that are competitive now with the change to immunities that I havent thought of. I would be curious what others thought about this.

Also, Ill note that skilled teams can routinely clear endgame content and find many of the gg items early on in a season. If you are familiar with Diablo 2 at all, you know that this is routine even before the bot-hordes kick in. They know how to work together and utilize loot tables to find exactly what they need. Most people just dont have the know-how or the time to do this.

As for your larger concern about the item curve. Before this most recent patch, I would have agreed with you that the curve was too steep. For basically every character, it was basically a tale of two lives: life before cowset and life after cowset. The only characters whose best-in-slot items did not include cowset were basically builds who used the shrieking lich and glass-cannon bowzons. I cant think of any others.

I dont think its sunk in for a lot of people yet. But that has now changed. It is now the case that rares are the best-in-slot items for most slots since they have the potential to roll better than any unique that doesnt have a build-defining proc or spell-effect. So rares can be extremely powerful now at the very end game. In addition, they can be very strong early on. Even the low-medium rares can be very effective for people without much wealth early in a season. They allow you to farm content effectively until you can get even better rares or those build-defining uniques you need to complete your builds. You just need to be able to determine what stats your character needs and hunt for rares accordingly. This is something anyone with a working knowledge of Diablo 2 can do. If you need help on what stats you need for what builds, well thats what the forums are for. Plenty of people around here (myself included) will be happy to help you with these things.

Happy Hunting

[Game]

Ok I dont think you really understand whats going on here. Lucid is entirely right about this. A golem mancer isnt a tank. Its golems are the tanks. Since clay golems slow the effected monster; reducing the number of spells and attacks it throws out and are incredibly tanky, they allow you to tank difficult bosses very easily. (if it weren't for clay golems, lich king items would be much rarer) The necro itself, just needs to cast the appropriate curse and then hide in the corner. That makes it a strong and (more importantly for a reset) cheap support character. So early on in a ladder reset, there is no better support character than a golemancer vs bosses.

As for the DPS role, currently the javazon is the best overall DPS character in the game. Its just very hard to gear so you dont see many of them. It has the highest single-target dps with charged strike. (Charged strike does more damage then zeal and doesnt have an attack rating, it also does more damage than smiters at perfect gear) Its aoe is almost as good as the bowzons as well. Where it loses to the zealers is in areas like plaguelands and inferno areas, where the monsters arent clumped enough for lightning fury to be effective and their hitboxes are too small for charged strike to one-shot them. In those areas, its lack of sustain hurts as well.

The best DPS role for a ladder reset is up for debate now. I havent tested this, but I think an orb sorc may be able to compete with the javazon now vs bosses. Its super cheap to gear, and a skilled orber has high single target damage. Its also safer than a javazon at that stage and the change to cold mastery means it doesnt care about immunes anymore. At a ladder reset, I may suggest a orb sorc over a javzon in some scenarios. A good sorc can dodge sindragosas much easier than a javzon can for example. There may be others that are competitive now with the change to immunities that I havent thought of. I would be curious what others thought about this.

As for your larger concern about the item curve. Before this most recent patch, I would have agreed with you that the curve was too steep. For basically every character, it was basically a tale of two lives: life before cowset and life after cowset. The only characters whose best-in-slot items did not include cowset were basically builds who used the shrieking lich and glass-cannon bowzons. I cant think of any others.

I dont think its sunk in for a lot of people yet. But that has now changed. It is now the case that rares are the best-in-slot items for most slots since they have the potential to roll better than any unique that doesnt have a build-defining proc or spell-effect. So rares can be extremely powerful now at the very end game. In addition, they can be very strong early on. Even the low-medium rares can be very effective for people without much wealth early in a season. They allow you to farm content effectively until you can get even better rares or those build-defining uniques you need to complete your builds. You just need to be able to determine what stats your character needs and hunt for rares accordingly. This is something anyone with a working knowledge of Diablo 2 can do. If you need help on what stats you need for what builds, well thats what the forums are for. Plenty of people around here (myself included) will be happy to help you with these things.

Happy Hunting

That is exactly what I was shooting for, and I am glad people realize it! Rares have a LOT of potential now. Sure they don't have certain unique effects like auras, skill modifiers, or anything like that, but they can provide an awesome amount of stats with a decent roll. This opened the door to so much more possibility. It helps new players get started, it gives veteran players something to farm and can literally do just about any content in the game to find them so it doesn't get boring, and it lets people have a crazy amount of builds to work with. These rares by any means did not make the endgame uniques / sets useless, it just gives you some choice! You can still use cow set or any of the old builds and still be just as strong, or you can use rares as well. Patch 3.2 was a really big game changer when it comes to items, I hope more and more people realize just how much variety there is now!

[vaudeville]

Actually rrra, I do understand that and yet again it sounds as if you folks think I don't know how this game works. What I don't understand though is how are you supposed to have a good golemancer and javazon when you don't have good enough equipment for either and the only way you can "tank" well with golems is with that equipment. THAT is the point. Nothing else. And that is why I have shown frustration with most of the comments here because many of you seem to think you'll just get all those items you need within days if not a few weeks even after a reset which I can only see happening with lady luck being right by your side the whole time.

I have yet to see a modestly equipped duo of the javazon and golemancer do well against any end game content (golemancer and paladin yes, but not a javazon and golemancer. You would have to run that experiment to dispel my pessimistic view. I take it you and a friend will have no trouble taking the lich king with just the trag stuff for the necromancer (and therefore summoning only 1 golem) and whatever mediocre equipment a javazon would have.
a javazon would have.